Radio Interview of Attorney John R. Frazier by Attorney Joseph Pippen
Attorney Pippen:
And attorney John Frazier’s on the phone. Good morning, John.
Attorney Frazier:
Hi, Joe. How are you doing today?
Attorney Pippen:
I’m doing great. What’s your topic for today on Medicaid Planning or VA planning?
Attorney Frazier:
Oh, today I was going to talk about how to apply for Medicaid in Florida, and the required forms that are to be submitted with the Medicaid application. In Florida, there are currently two ways to apply for Medicaid. You can apply online at Access Florida, which is the Department of Children and Families website for applying online. Or, a person can visit an Access Florida Center. Here in Pinellas County, our main office center is the Mary Grizzle State Office Building, which is about a mile down the road from our Ulmerton Road office. So you can actually visit the State Office Building and apply for Medicaid benefits there.
In the old days, we used to use a form called a Request for Assistance, or an RFA, and that was DCF form number 2066. Within the past 15 years or so, that has all been largely replaced by the online and the Access system, which is probably a much more efficient way and cost-effective way for the government to process these applications. In our Medicaid cases, we typically include that as part of our services applying online, and we haven’t submitted a paper application for probably about 15 years now. So, all of our applications are done online now.
We have a few cases where the actual nursing facility will submit the Medicaid application. Under Florida law, anybody can apply for Medicaid, you don’t have to be an attorney. So, in a lot of cases where a person applying for benefits does not need an attorney, the nursing facility will actually submit the Medicaid application online through the Access Florida system.
The State of Florida has some required forms. I think it’s also important to keep in mind that these applications are done under penalty of perjury. The Medicaid applicant and spouse must disclose all of their assets and all of their income, and that’s done under penalties of perjury.
And there are four or five required forms that must be submitted when you apply for Medicaid in Florida with the Medicaid application. So the way that it works here in our office, we file the Medicaid application online, and then we assemble a packet to be either faxed or uploaded to the DCF website, which would include all of the asset income and demographic information for the Medicaid applicant. And, there are four forms that must be signed and submitted with what is called the pending information, and that’s all the paperwork like the bank statements and things like that. You’ve got the appointment of a designated representative. So in our cases, either the Medicaid applicant, the spouse, or the Power of Attorney would appoint me to be the designated representative that’s DCF form number 2505. And, that way by authorizing me, our office can communicate with the DCF caseworker so that we can get the case approved.
The next form is called an Informed Consent form. And that’s actually issued through the Florida Agency for Healthcare Administration, or AHCA, which is AHCA form 2040. The reason why that’s important is that there’s a medical evaluation in each one of these cases. So the State of Florida we’ll send a case worker from the Department of Elder Affairs to actually visit with the resident of the nursing facility or the assisted living facility, and medically evaluate that person and look at their medical records.
Along with that, we have another form, DCF form number 2514, Authorization to Disclose Information, because the State of Florida is required to look at a medical records. The Medicaid applicant, Power of Attorney, or spouse must sign that form.
And then the final form when you apply for Medicaid in Florida that must be signed is called the Financial Information Release Form. That is DCF form number 2613. And the State of Florida will not process these Medicaid applications unless those forms are signed and dated. This Financial Information Release form is used for a variety of reference things. The State of Florida can actually verify a person’s current Social Security amount through something called the Florida Data Exchange System. And so the DCF case worker will type in the Social Security number for the Medicaid applicant and spouse, and actually pull up the current Social Security benefits that the person is receiving. The State of Florida can also use that form to basically catch people who are cheating on their Medicaid applications if they’re not disclosing everything. And the State of Florida can access old 1099s through the IRS and find out if there’s anything out there that the Medicaid applicant or spouse did not disclose.
So I know that that’s a lot of information, but that’s a basic overview of actually submitting a Florida Medicaid application.
Attorney Pippen:
All right. Yes, John, that is a whole lot of information in how to apply for Medicaid for Florida. So if anyone wanted to discuss with you, perhaps they have a loved one they want to do some pre-planning for, because it’s evident that they’re going to be in a nursing home soon. Or maybe somebody that’s already in a nursing home and thinks they don’t qualify for Medicaid yet. So if they have any of those type discussions, how could they contact you?
Attorney Frazier:
The office number is (727) 586-3306, extension 104. My cell phone is (727) 748-5374, and my email address is John@attypip.com.
Attorney Pippen:
All right. And isn’t it true that a lot of people think that just know what they can’t qualify because they have too many assets, and you have mastered how to move things around, get it in different categories so they qualify, protecting all of their estate, perhaps, and maximizing government benefits?
Attorney Frazier:
Absolutely. And I’ve actually had some tragic situations where I would say that most of the people who contact us who have spoken to non-elder law attorneys before speaking to us have been given incorrect information. There’s a lot of reasons for that. The rules are different in each state. We have many people here in Florida who are from different states, so the rules in Michigan, Washington State, Pennsylvania, they are all going to be different. So, we have some very, very confused people calling us sometimes because they’ve been given multiple different stories about how to qualify for Medicaid. And I can think of one situation where a married couple thought that they had to actually spend down to $2,000 for both of them, before one spouse could obtain Medicaid. That is completely incorrect.
If you have one spouse in a nursing facility, the Medicaid applicant is allowed to have $2,000, and under current rules, the spouse in the community is allowed to have $130,380. And the Florida homestead is exempt, their automobile is exempt. And this couple seemed to think that they had to spend everything down to $2,000, just so the husband could qualify. Luckily, we were able to advise them before that happened, but that’s a tragic example of what can happen if you get bad legal advice. You don’t actually have to spend all your assets down. And, I’ve had cases over $2 million using a strategy called spousal refusal, where we can get people with millions of dollars on Medicaid, potentially. That’s only in a situation where we have one spouse applying for Medicaid and another spouse still on the community. So, I think there are a lot of misconceptions for a lot of different reasons.
Attorney Pippen:
John, how fast could somebody from another state move down to Florida and qualify for Medicaid?
Attorney Frazier:
Basically, one day. I had one situation, many years back, where a family was here from out of state and the husband actually had a stroke while he was on vacation here in Florida. He was unable physically to be moved back to the state that they came from. And so, he was in a nursing facility here in Pinellas County. We applied for Medicaid. And so it’s literally a one-day residency requirement. And we got that person on Medicaid, even though they were technically residents of another state.
Attorney Pippen:
And how hard would it be once they went on Medicaid, got on Medicaid, went through possibly rehab in the nursing home, and they wanted to move back to another state? What’s the procedure there if they went from one nursing home here on Medicaid to a nursing home in another state?
Attorney Frazier:
Well, that is theoretically possible, but I think as a practical matter, most of my clients who are in a nursing facility are really physically unable to make that move, for the most part. So that would be a very, very rare situation. But I think if a person were to want to do that, they would need to consult with an attorney in the other state. So let’s say that person wanted to move to Pennsylvania. Now, for example, here in Florida, we use the spousal refusal strategy, as well as a number of other very, very generous strategies that we have available here in Florida, something called a Personal Services Contract. These strategies may not be available in other states. So, if we use those legal strategies here in Florida, there’s no way to know whether that would be permissible in another state. So they would need to speak to an elder law attorney in that state. In that example in Pennsylvania first, before they make that move, I think.
Attorney Pippen:
All right. Well, very good. John, give us your contact information one more time, so if anyone wants to talk to you about Medicaid or VA planning, protecting assets from nursing homes and medical expenses. Go ahead and-
Attorney Frazier:
Yep. The office number is (727) 586-3306, extension 104. My cell phone is (727) 748-5374. And my email address is John@attypip.com
Attorney Pippen:
All right John, before I let you go here, tell the audience one more time, how important it is to have a Durable Power of Attorney in Medicaid planning.
Attorney Frazier:
That is literally the most important Medicaid pre-planning strategy or thing that the person needs to do. I’m literally dealing with this issue on a daily basis. And it’s very, very important to speak to an experienced estate planning or elder law attorney about that, because there needs to be some provisions in there, which relate to Medicaid planning. And if they’re not in there and the person does a Power of Attorney, and then later on those Medicaid planning provisions are not in there, and that person has lost capacity and can’t sign a new Power of Attorney a few years down the road, the only option is guardianship, which is a very expensive court-ordered process, so that is the most critical Medicaid planning issue that we deal with in every single one of our cases. It’s absolutely critical.
Attorney Pippen:
All right. All right, very good. Thank you so much for calling on this Super Bowl Sunday, John, hope you have a great day.
Attorney Frazier:
Okay, thanks a lot and you have a great Sunday as well.
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